- Jayco Brochure Archive
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Anyone have any experience towing a Jayco 23b hybrid travel trailer with a Sprinter?A shorter shot. Any general towing experience or comments about the 23b?We like the fact that it can expand for visitors, but will sleep 2 -3 people when turtled (closed up) for short stops, friend's driveways. The towing weight looks good. We slept in a Coleman pop-up bed for about 10 years of 2+ week long camping events. We know the disadvantages of canvas.
We don't mind that.Here's an example for those who might be curious. It's listed for $10,500.00 on their website so out of our price range. The model goes back to at least 2001.http://www.rvingplanet.com/brands/jayco/kiwi/expandables/vic. Vic/AP,I have a 2006 Jayco Jay Feather LGT 25Z UltraLight travel trailer that's very similar to the 23b except for the fold outs.What exactly do you wish to know?RogerRoger,Sounds close enough to be very similar.Specifics? Hm-m.Do you need anti-sway controls for the hitch? How is it in wind? Are you basically happy with the Jayco quality?
I know that they've been around since the late '60's so I'm not that concerned, but.We were considering a Fleetwood pop-up, but the 23b hybrid may do what we want better. I know we'll take a hit on mpg.
I'm hoping the CSS (Ciprian Set Sixty) travel mode will help to minimize that. We'll be the typical white Q-tip trailer tow old people then, except we'll stay in the right lane. Just to put it out there. Sailquick's 2012 170 3500 is a very different vehicle than your low roof 140 2500. A 23ft 5k(when loaded) trailer might be a handful with a short wheelbase 2500.That is a very good point. The point is moot.I pulled into the RV dealer parking lot. There was a Jayco 23b Kiwi connected to a red pickup truck.
The 23b was dirty and rough.I went in and asked what the story with Kiwi was. Customer trailer or for sale? Just pulled in. It is a trade. We're just going out to evaluate it.
Want to see?So long story short I just bought a very dirty 2001 Jayco Kiwi 23b hybrid trailer. I never did look at the 2007.The price was reasonable, not great, but OK. Colton is replacing all 4 tires. Inspecting the bearings (repack if OK, replace if not). Brakes to be replaced if under 1/2 lining. All gas related appliances to be inspected and safe. New York vehicle inspection, etc.
Anti-sway bar to handled by parts department. They are also throwing in vinyl cleaner, roof sealant, canvas cleaner.
We will be very busy using it.Once again I head out to just explore and end up with an immediate purchase. We are idiots. Here's to hoping that scenario works out for us yet again. Maybe it was just karma that the 23b was there?:cheers: vic. First I want to thank Sailquik Roger for his replies and some PM's Roger and Type2Teach Joel provided. As always the information was very helpful.:cheers:We just did our first road trip with the 2001 Jayco 23b hybrid travel trailer.
For those not familiar with travel trailers (I wasn't), a hybrid trailer is a hard sided trailer which has drop down canvas covered sleeping areas to expand the number of bed spaces available. If the user doesn't mind sleeping under canvas the pop out beds add sleeping space without much added weight or added length. We don't mind sleeping under canvas (we kinda like it) and the Jayco 23b has a gross vehicle weight of 4950#, 3,630 lbs dry. That is just under our official 5000# Sprinter tow capacity.The Jayco 23b has a nice open layout, has a large U dinette, slide out sofa area, and quite a bit of storage space. We just slept 6 adults and 2 children (all family members, you wouldn't do that to friends) using the trailer as a bunkhouse at a cottage.
The temperatures were mild, 40F - 65F and everyone claimed they were comfortable. We have a geat family, so maybe they were being kind with the replies. My wife and I were very comfortable for sure sleeping in the smaller back end pop out bed.For anyone interested some basic information about the 23b and other Jayco hybrids can be found here.the reason I'm answering my own thread is that based upon our 250 mile Memorial Day W/E round trip I would not hesitate to tow a Jayco 23b with a T1N 2500 Sprinter.When we bought the trailer the dealership RV parts department told me we would need a Weight Distributing Hitch WDH and was happy to quote a 10,000# high capacity model which was about $800+ installed. When I offered that my Sprinter was only rated for 5000# tow capacity they moved down to a lesser model in the $600 price range. I told them that I would think about it. Their reply included something about safety and a WDH being a 'must have'.I did some searching and decided that because the trailer had once had a friction type anti-sway bar ball mount attached I would just go with that and hold off on a WDH. I ordered a anti-sway bar figuring that the swivel ball mount would be an industry standard.
The holes almost aligned, but were just off enough to need significant modification.Because other schedules got in the way I didn't get the anti-sway bar installed. So our first trip was without an expensive WDH or even an inexpensive anti-sway device. The wind on the delivery was maybe 15 mph. Our speed was generally around 60 mph with a little bit of 65 - 70 mph for shorter periods of time. I had no trouble with the 23b tracking behind me.The return trip was a bit windier with gusts to a solid 25 mph, maybe more, being pretty common.
The rig moved around a bit in the bigger gusts and when passing trucks disturbed the already windy air flow. Even in those situations I felt very much under control. There was a bit of buffeting around at times on the return trip, but nothing even approaching a white knuckle event. The rig tracked just fine.I will install the anti-sway bar which I bought. Based upon this one trip, had I not already purchased it I probably would wait and see whether to spend the money.I added some mirror extenders. Again, had I not already purchased them I probably wouldn't bother. My stock Sprinter mirror position gave me all the view which I needed for lane changing and backing up.I ran the 185 80r 13 Goodyear Marathon tires at 50 psi which is max pressure.
I always run any trailer tires at the max pressure indicated on the sidewall. Whenever we stopped I checked hub and tire temperatures by feel. All the tires and hubs felt like they were similar cool to warm temperature. Not one felt at all hot.I dialed in the electric brake controller and was happy with the brake operation on the trip. The brakes had been NYS safety inspected. Even so, the day before leaving I took a turn around the block with the trailer in normal mode.
I felt all the trailer wheels and all were cool. I did another turn around with the manual brake controller button held on. I could feel the drag. When I stopped to feel the temperatures of the trailer wheels each one felt a bit warm. Not very scientific, but it gave me an indication that the brakes were released on the first trip, and that all four wheels had at least some brake applied for the second time around. As an aside, I used #10 awg wire for the brake control wiring as Roger always suggests (as does Etrailer).I didn't weigh the trailer and Sprinter. My guess is that the trailer was probably 4200# max because we don't have dishes, pots, pans, and other stuff accumulated as yet.
The tongue weight was probably 350# with a 400# max. The rear end of the Sprinter did not squat at all. The dual axle trailer was level. The Sprinter had a medium cargo load inside, not a heavy load at all.So at this time it seems that the T1N 2500 single rear wheel cargo Sprinter is up to towing a 2001 Jayco 23b trailer. After I get the simple friction anti-sway bar installed and have a few more trips under my belt I'll update here. I'm thinkin' that it's going to be fine and lots of fun. In the for what it is worth department.
Yes, 95% of the time any trailer will track well behind virtually any tow vehicle. It's the other 5% that can literally kill. I know WAY too many people that fortunately have not been killed but, have been off the side of the road once the trailer goes.
If the trailer starts YOU WILL NOT STOP IT!Your 'anti-sway' bar is a passive not active version. $600.00 is cheap money when life is on the line.Good luck - enjoy the camping!Larry. I've see (in several million miles on the roqd) a considerable number of relatively small trailer that have flipped relatively large tow vehicles, due I'm guessing to sudden uncontrolled swaying!
It nearly happened to me once. I was driving a Toyota land cruiser, towing a single axle, truck tired tild bed utility trailer. All of a sudden it started to sway at 65 mph, and within seconds it was a carnival ride.
Jayco Brochure Archive
Braking was not really an effective option. I simply steer it out and bled off the speed and then a slight acceleration and it cam back under.then I slowed down for the rest of the trip!Icarus. I just acquired an older 20 1/2' coachman trailer and was thinking about a WDH also. My trailer weighs 3k#, and I have a 2011 2500. I also have an older suburban which is what I used to get it home, no sway bar and the ride was a bit bouncy in that. I have read where the WDH that is rated too high (10k#) is just as bad as too low, the lower rated hitches are almost double the cost of the higher ones.The reason I am thinking about the WDH is several years ago while traveling on Rt 80 coming back to NJ from PA.
We saw a Dodge Dakota towing a car trailer with a '70 Malibu on the back merge on to RT80 from another highway at about 60-65 mph. Heavy traffic and the trailer just started to sway and very quickly got worse and worse until the entire truck and trailer started to spin and wound up going backwards on the highway.Luckily all of the cars behind it saw it happening and stopped in the middle of the 4 lane highway to watch the spin. When the truck stopped in the center lane facing the wrong way, facing many cars there were 3 people in the cab whose eyes were the size of dinner plates and desperately needed to change their pants.I dont want to be that driver. Vic,You do need a trailer sway (more properly, its a yaw control) control for gusts and in the WET! Generally they are friction types using a link bar between the van hitch and tha A frame of the trailer. So easy to swap ends in wet when braking. They help keep the trailer aligned behind the van instead of jack knifing.
It saved my bacon on a unexpected stop on a wet, greasy, bumpy road. Spooky to feel the tail begin to wag the dog.A WDH is also an essential safety bit. It redistributes the weight back to the front where your steering and most braking effort is located. A WDH will also help control pitching and porposing so the combo rides as a unit rather than having a flex joint in the middle at the hitch.Your electric brake controller should be located where you can quickly reach it.
On wet, or in a jack knifing you may want to manually apply the trailer brakes to drag the whole combo down from behind to put or keep it in alignment.Cheers! Thanks for the 'stand your ground' post, Vic.All this talk of WDH had me worried with us planning a big trip this summer with our 21tt trailer (very similar to yours), but my personal experience dictates that I not be worried.I have only two experiences towing large loads:The first one is well documented here on the forum and I got alot of (deserved) flack for it. I had an empty uhaul truck towing my '02 on a flatbed trailer that was too small for it. The trailer and van were both heavier and larger than the towing vehicle and we almost had a few accidents because the weights/sizes were so off. It was keep the speed at 55 or slower. 55mph from Auburn, Alabama to Philadelphia was a loooooooooonnnnnnggggg drive.The second experience was towing my new-to-me 21tt trailer with my 140' Sprinter.
I kept my speeds around 60 and it was a dream to drive. After a while, I forgot it was back there. The longer wheelbase of the Sprinter and the weight of the Sprinter combined with the well distributed weight of the camper made it all very easy. At NO point did I ever feel I was going to loose control. I drove from Tampa, Florida to Philadelphia. No WDH, nothing special.This summer I'll be towing the same trailer with my '06 158' tall. I'm not worried at all.
If, by some chance, I happen to feel worried while on the road, Amazon will ship pretty much anywhere, and I've seen WDH on Craigslists all over the country. We will just camp in one spot until I can get one. I can't say that I have ever towed one of the Jayco uprights, but I tow a Jayco popup around 3K quite a bit with my sprinter. It tows like a dream even up to 75 mph on the freeway. It has surge brakes on it, not electric.
Jayco sets the weight and hitch to wheel length of their trailers up in such a way that it is very difficult, if not impossible to get sway unless the units are grossly misloaded, they have a reputation for towing very well. I've also towed my trailer with my odyssey, which supposedly needs a WDH and so on to tow this trailer.
Never used anything like that, just airbags on the ODY (it squats without them) and it again tows great. I think the main thing here is to take your vehicle and trailer out and do some towing with it.
Many times (most) you will find that it tows great and is very forgiving with the setup you have. If not, then you need to modify your set up with WDH, Sway. My general feeling is that if you are within the tow limits of the vehicle and drive with the recognition that you have a trailer back there the set up you have is usually OK.
If the limits are pushed or exceeded, then you often need add ons. For most of the preconfigured campers out there, the vast majority of the weight and distribution is preset, so that are not a lot of options to misload.
They usually tow quite well. Clearly you can't make the system idiot proof, as they are building better ones all the time, but thankfully the folks on this forum are pretty sharp.Chris. What can I say, most things related to safety must be a waste of money and time with the logic being used here.' Why should we put on seat belts; I drive around for a while without them and nothing happens, I can drive just fine and have done it many times, so I'll cut the seat belts off.' 'I can ride a bicycle through city streets and through trails without a helmet and nothing has happened, so why use a helmet?'
'Why do we need air bags, fenders, doors, hell all those things add weight so let's remove them. I bet I can drive around without these things and all will be OK?
We did this with Jeeps in the 50's and nobody died then.' I think you get the picture? What can I say, most things related to safety must be a waste of money and time with the logic being used here.'
Why should we put on seat belts; I drive around for a while without them and nothing happens, I can drive just fine and have done it many times, so I'll cut the seat belts off.' 'I can ride a bicycle through city streets and through trails without a helmet and nothing has happened, so why use a helmet?' 'Why do we need air bags, fenders, doors, hell all those things add weight so let's remove them.
I bet I can drive around without these things and all will be OK? We did this with Jeeps in the 50's and nobody died then.' I think you get the picture?OK. I can take sarcasm.:cheers:Now.
Do you have any specific experiences towing a travel trailer with a Sprinter under the conditions that I described? Or has your towing experience been with an SUV or other vehicle which has soft suspension because people don't like trucks? Or do you tow at all?Can you cite somewhere that Mercedes Benz says that a WDH is necessary to tow safely with a rig which meets their towing capacities?Not many people consider that the WDH increases stress on the frame hitch. Think about the leverage. You don't transfer force with a lever without something seeing different loads.
The frame hitch becomes the fulcrum. It and the frame can see more virtual 'tongue weight' with a load 'distributing' hitch. As with most things in life, you don't get something for nothing.As I said earlier, some vehicles come with tow ratings which include the WDH. I've not seen that for the Sprinter. I've seen pictures of crushed Sprinter frame members when using aftermarket suspension 'solutions'. Does MB specifically recommend installing a WDH on a unibody Sprinter?I will spend money for safety.
I generally do try to avoid wasting money by jumping to conclusions though.I also believe in the ASSYST and don't change my oil until it indicates that it is time. Based upon other MB specifications and my driving experience I believe that the 5000/500# tow rating is a realistic, if not conservative, number for the Sprinter. I'm open for experience and data. I don't wear a helmet unless required for charity bicycle events. I guess you got me on that one. I do tow Vic, and have also witnessed others towing in a caravan when a trailer swayed and put several others and the towing vehicle at risk.
Even 18-wheelers can sway and jacknife under some conditions.Now I don't want to be paranoid. We all take risks. I usually don't when others may be at risk from my behavior. Having said this, how much safety is enough? I used to drive a Ford station wagon from NY to Florida without seat-belts and without head restraints, driving at night with my wife and three small daughters sleeping in the back without seat-belts; cars didn't have seat belts then.
I shiver thinking about how lucky we were surviving those long trips.The reason for my last post is the logic being used that if we just drive around for a few miles and everything works, its OK. By that logic since we survived those long NY to Florida trips without seat belts, it is OK to continue doing it. I agree with Vic regarding WDH, without factory approval I would not try, it is not the stress on the hitch itself; it is the stress on the Sprinter’s unibody. Sprinter could be following the EU practice of not using WDH so their unibody is not necessarily designed for WDH. EU tongue weights are between 4-7% versus 10-15% in US. I agree with Vic regarding WDH, without factory approval I would not try, it is not the stress on the hitch itself; it is the stress on the Sprinter’s unibody. Sprinter could be following the EU practice of not using WDH so their unibody is not necessarily designed for WDH.
EU tongue weights are between 4-7% versus 10-15% in US. Hang on, this thread is about caravans.Never seen a WDH before, looks interesting but surely if you have the correct hitch height and nose weight on the tralier or caravan you will be just as good? It doesn't actually re-distribute weight at all, it justs makes the drawbar and towbar effectively rigid in the vertical plane. I realise most vehicles don't have variable height hitches, but when towing heavy loads they are definitely worth looking at (landrovers usually have them). You want your twin axle trailer/caravan to have both axles carrying weight, which means getting the drawbar level so it's chassis is level.
As long as you keep the nose weight within the rating for the vehicle if you move the hitch up to meet the coupling you can achieve this without resorting to fancy levers.We already established a while back that European sprinters are only rated for about half the nose weight that US sprinters are, but in either case the rear suspension is designed to work with that nose weight as long as the rear axle weight is still within the prescribed limit. If your rear axle weight is right with the trailer hitched up, and the caravan or trailer chassis is level a WDH is not going to do anything more for you. I do tow Vic, and have also witnessed others towing in a caravan when a trailer swayed and put several others and the towing vehicle at risk.
Even 18-wheelers can sway and jacknife under some conditions.Nothing is perfect even with a WDH. I don't see many 18 wheelers sporting WDH on the roads that I travel.The reason for my last post is the logic being used that if we just drive around for a few miles and everything works, its OK.
By that logic since we survived those long NY to Florida trips without seat belts, it is OK to continue doing it. AlBy extension.I feel that SUV's, even with a WDH and anti-sway control, are inferior to full sized vans for towing. So in the name of safety should I recommend that they replace their tow vehicle with a full sized van rather than using an SUV?I didn't just 'drive around for a few miles'. I put out my thought process as to what I'm doing to tow my trailer for all to see and comment. Money not being an object, could I do more?
Of course I could, and so could you. Trouble is that for me money is an object so I apply reasonable risk. Everyone does that every day of their life.
Some do it by decision, others by default.If my interpretations are correct, the Sprinter is rather unique as to tow rating compared to many Detroit iron tow ratings. The Detroit iron states that you need to consider passengers and loaded weight into the formula for tow capacity. I don't see that for the Sprinter tow rating. The tow rating is 5000/500# even with a loaded Sprinter.I feel what I am doing is reasonable.
I am towing at a reasonable speed within the tow rating of the Sprinter. So far, even given some of the chicken little responses, nobody has provided any data or reason to convince me to change my plans. To get back to WDH and Sprinters.I did some searching. It isn't as easy to track down the real information as it should be.The trailer hitch manufacturers list that their dead weight (conventional) trailer hitch gives the T1N Sprinter a 5000/500# tow capacity.
5000 being the trailer weight/500 being the tongue weight. Some claim 6000/600#. Some even claim that with a WDH it goes up to 10,000/750#.Going by the Mercedes Benz and Dodge information that I uncovered I believe that for the T1N Sprinters the tow rating is 5000/500#, period. I didn't find any reference to higher tow weight or even tongue weight related to WDH for the TIN. That said, there may be a tongue weight increase possible because I did find official information indicating that for the NCV3 the tongue weight could go to 750# by using a WDH.
The info that I found didn't indicate any increase for trailer weight over the 5000# official number for a WDH. (I lost the link.)As I said earlier, I didn't find any MB reference related to reducing the Sprinter tow ratings dependent upon occupancy or cargo loading. The tow rating is 5000# (or whatever is listed). The actual tongue weight needs to be included in the cargo calculations though.So for most Sprinters, anyone who is looking to stay with what I feel are the official MB tow ratings you should do some research before trusting what the internet and some trailer hitch suppliers say about a higher towing rating than 5000# by using a WDH.What I found for NAS (N.
American Specification) Sprinters:The T1N is 5000/500# regardless of 2500, 3500, 4 or 6 wheels.The NCV3 2500 (2013) is 5000/500# with possibly an increase to 750# tongue weight by using a WDH option. (I lost that link.)The NCV3 3500 cargo is 7500/750# except that it reverts to 5000/500# with a 170' WB extended.:hmmm:The closer the hitch ball to the rear axle the better.This link is for 2013. The information that I found seemed consistent back to the 2007 NCV3 model.Dodge link.for NCV3 ONLY:Ho boy.You guys got me digging around.There is what appears to be official Mercedes mention of a WDH for a 5000# tow 750# tongue weight. FOR NCV3 ONLY.Look under Specifications.Vehicle Name: Mercedes-Benz Sprinter Cargo Vans.
Body Style: Cargo Van 144' WB RWD. Drivetrain: Rear Wheel Drive. Gross Axle Wt Rating - Front (lbs): 3970. Gross Axle Wt Rating - Rear (lbs): 5360.
Curb Weight - Front (lbs): 2954. Curb Weight - Rear (lbs): 2083. Gross Vehicle Weight Rating Cap (lbs): 8550. Gross Combined Wt Rating (lbs): 13550. Dead Weight Hitch - Max Trailer Wt.
(lbs): 5000. Dead Weight Hitch - Max Tongue Wt. (lbs): 500. Wt Distributing Hitch - Max Trailer Wt.
(lbs): 5000. Wt Distributing Hitch - Max Tongue Wt. (lbs): 750. Maximum Trailering Capacity (lbs): 5000.
Engine Order Code: MG3 (I4):2cents: vic. As I said earlier, I didn't find any MB reference related to reducing the tow ratings dependent upon occupancy or cargo loading.
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The tow rating is 5000# (or whatever is listed).It is written in my owners handbook (and the fact that our capacities are half of yours will not change this) that what you call the tongue weight has to be subtracted from the max rear axle load when calculating the load for inside the van. Effectively if you are going to run 500# tongue weight, and you check the van on a weigh bridge without the trailer attached, your rear axle weight (and van only gross weight) need to be 500# less than the maximum allowed on the VIN plate, so that with the trailer hitched up, your van is still within it's design parameters. You could also go to the weighbridge with the trailer and check that with it hitched up your axle loads and gross weight are in.:professor:The amount you can tow is also on the VIN plate (well it is here). Bearing in mind that 5000/500, or 10% tongue weight is a guide (and probably a good guide), it is not mandatory to reduce the tow weight if you have to reduce the tongue weight because say you only have 200# spare to go on the rear axle, but if you want to keep the 10% ratio you will need to.Of course the elephant in the room is that I don't know any van owner or caravanner who checks their axle weights regularly, in fact I still haven't found a weighbridge near me to check mine so I know where it's at!:idunno. Do all that, and I reckon you will be set up better than using a WDH!:thumbup::cheers:My local scrap yard (breaker) is very accommodating for weighing my trailer/van rig if I go at a slack time.
I drive onto the scale with just the van, get the weight, fit the entire rig on, get that weight, and then pull forward so just the trailer is on the scale.I've never troubled them for individual axle weights because I don't want to piss them off. I'm never loaded heavy enough with possessions that even a 500# tongue weight subtraction would be a problem.I haven't measured the actual tongue weight on my travel trailer yet. My plan is to use two bathroom scales to support a 4 x 4 timber bridge for the nose jack. My bath scales go to 250# each so I should be good to go with the resulting number.I'm not flying completely blind here.When I measure my dual axle trailer the corners were all within 1/2' or so of each other. Our roads aren't that level for measuring though. I needed to buy a different draw bar from what I had to get to that situation.
There is some forgiveness with the dual axle torsion bar independent trailer suspension which I have. I believe that it can be more critical with other style axle configurations. Again, we're dealing with a system so each setup will have different needs.The Detroit iron tow specs I remember don't just mention tongue weight and axle load. They include more general loaded weight information.Thanks to everyone for the input and information. Even though I may disagree at times with individual points, I do appreciate the comments. As Sikwan has said, our strength in the forum is the collective. I haven't seen a load adjusting valve on my 2004 rear brakes.
I believe for us it is an option.Edit: The mechanical load proportioning unit is not used on NAFTA Sprinters with ESP. The brake load proportioning is a feature of the ESP module.
ESP is a standard option for all NAFTA Sprinters 2004 and up. I'm not flying completely blind here.Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to suggest you were - I was mainly trying to help you build your case for why you won't be any better off with a WDH on your Sprinter, because as far as I can see you are spot on with that!All that rubbish for other vehicles about changing numbers of passengers and stuff - do they even tell you what weight they are supposed to be? I'm worth about 1.5 people based on the standard weights used in my industry! It's no wonder people have come up with WDH's for the average driver of the average car, it's a device to try and keep it level when you don't have the info or nous to work it out for yourself. My boss always raves about self levelling suspension for towing - exactly the same principle to get around smaller vehicles with softer suspension being usable with or without a trailer (because if you beefed the suspension up for towing it would wreck your spine in daily use!)Stick to your guns!:cheers.All that rubbish for other vehicles about changing numbers of passengers and stuff - do they even tell you what weight they are supposed to be?
I'm worth about 1.5 people based on the standard weights used in my industry!Stick to your guns!:cheers:Below is a little calculator that I ran across from Dodge. I think they mention 150# as a 'person'. I'm 1.5 people myself.Anyway, the calculator shows that they expect passengers and payload to be figured in, not just tongue weight subtracted. They do stress tongue weight.' While it's not listed in the charts, tongue weight is also an important consideration. The recommended tongue weight is between 10 & 15% of the trailer weight. However, the maximum tongue weight on Class III (The bumper ball) is limited to 500 lbs, and Class IV (The receiver hitch) to 1200 lbs.This requirement overrides any recommended GTW rating, between 10% and 15% of gross trailer weight (GTW).
Additionally, the GAWRs and GVWRs should never be exceeded.' I like the MB method better.The Dodge calculator is hereentire site is here for those interested.does include the Sprinter by vehicle selection. This should take you to a NCV3 2500 144 3.0L example. They don't seem to count passengers for the Sprinter.O%255ESTANDARD+ROOF%255E2WD&bedwheel=U%255ET%255ESPRINTER%255E9%255E2500+CARG O%255ESTANDARD+ROOF%255E2WD%255E144+IN+Bed&enginetrans=U%255ET%255ESPRINTER%255E9%255E2500+C ARGO%255ESTANDARD+ROOF%255E2WD%255E144+IN+Bed%255E 3.0L+V6+Turbo+Diesel+Engine%255EFive+Speed+Automat ic+Transmissionvic. I'm cornFused.???From what I have gleaned the T1N 2500 tow rating is 5000# all the time.
(Some other models are 7500/750.) I haven't seen a mention of deduction using a number of passenger chart, WDH, or other complications. As Boater indicated, you need to subtract the tongue weight from the tow vehicle cargo capacity and monitor Gross Vehicle and axle weights.A couple selections from the 2006 T1N operator manual. (Around page 223)'Vehicle and Trailer Weights and RatingsGross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) is the maximumpermissible vehicle weight: 8,550 lbs (3,878 kgs),9,990 lbs (4,531 kgs) or 10,200 lbs (4,627 kgs).NOTE: The weight of your Sprinter is indicated on thetype plate. For type plate, see Identification Labels.Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW): comprises weight ofvehicle including fuel, tools, spare wheel, installedaccessories, passengers, cargo and trailer tongue. Itmust never exceed the GVWR.Gross Axle Weight Rating (GAWR) is the maximumpermissible axle weight: 'Gross Trailer Weight (GTW) is the maximumpermissible trailer weight to be towed:5,000 lbs. (2,260 kgs)'The tongue weight at the hitch ball must be added tothe GVW to prevent exceeding your Sprinter towvehicle’s rear GAWR.'
That's what I have found. As an aside, I just calculated a bit over 19 mpg for a second trip while towing my approx.
2600# (all up) sailboat/trailer. I used the Ciprian Set Sixty CSS method except that I set the 60 using my GPS speed, not by the speedo.
Hi Vic,So, per the 'Mercedes' calculation method, are you saying that the true weight of the trailer is only 4,500 lbs. GWV Trailer - 500 lbs. Tongue weight?Or are you saying that the tongue weight must be subtracted from the GCWR of the Sprinter (' Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) is the maximumpermissible vehicle weight: 8,550 lbs (3,878 kgs),9,990 lbs (4,531 kgs) or 10,200 lbs (4,627 kgs).' )Either way, this makes very little sense to me.Where did you find the Mercedes Benz method of calculation?Roger. Hi Vic,So, per the 'Mercedes' calculation method, are you saying that the true weight of the trailer is only 4,500 lbs.
GWV Trailer - 500 lbs. Tongue weight?Or are you saying that the tongue weight must be subtracted from the GCWR of the Sprinter (' Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) is the maximumpermissible vehicle weight: 8,550 lbs (3,878 kgs),9,990 lbs (4,531 kgs) or 10,200 lbs (4,627 kgs).' )Either way, this makes very little sense to me.Where did you find the Mercedes Benz method of calculation?RogerI ASS-U-ME that the 2006 Dodge operator manual I quoted is actually the 'Mercedes' calculation because the verbage seems different from say, the Ram Truck explanation.The max trailer tow weight is 5000#. The tongue weight needs to be included with the Gross Vehicle Weight and Rear Axle Weight, not subtracted. Sorry if something I posted added that confusion.What I find with the other Dodge/Detroit iron calculations is that they have the high number trailer tow weight, but then that number is reduced as to passengers and loaded weight in the vehicle.
So with the vehicle essentially empty you can tow that highest number trailer weight, if loaded then that brings the allowed tow weight down. There are various calculators which can be found on the internet.Maybe I'm reading the Ram Truck stuff wrong?:idunno:The Sprinter max trailer tow weight is 5000# all the time. The gross weight of the Sprinter is what is used for vehicle loading.
The only deduct is the tongue weight.The tongue weight is impressed upon the rear axle. It makes perfect sense to me that it would need to be included in the gross calculations (or otherwise subtracted from the tow vehicle cargo capacity). The total trailer weight is seen by the trailer ball as it pulls the trailer along even though some of that weight is not on the trailer axles because it is bearing down on the ball.vic20130623 Edit:Some additional info specific to my 2001 model year Jayco Kiwi 23b.My plan has been to travel without any water in the tanks. I hate the extra weight sucking fuel economy.
I know that the sloshing will affect the tow because I have towed a couple honey wagons and fuel trailers. My plan overall is to keep the trailer total weight at minimum for our needs and the tongue weight high within reason.
That works for every trailer that I have towed so far.The tanks in my 23b are all located either above the axle or behind. The black tank is pretty much right at the rear.
The gray tank is just behind the rear axle. The fresh water tank is positioned basically above the axles, but favors the rear axle assembly. My tanks being at all filled will only work against tongue weight.
I haven't put in any time as to weighing and experimenting with tongue weight yet, but I will.All trailer tires are speed rated/designed for 65 mph per DOT specifications, but Goodyear allows for higher speeds with overpressure. I provided a Tire Rack link to a PDF in the 23b thread. I plan for 60 mph typically anyway. I will not be breaking that speed unless I see a straight downhill which allows some gain for the next climb.Some people complain that the 23b Hybrid Travel Trailer road clearance is too low. I don't off-road so I'm happy that the trailer sits low. It helps with Center of Gravity.
I believe that the 23b CG is fairly good as HTT's go. We will pack heavy items as low as practical.So far the tractor trailer wash and fairly high cross winds didn't affect my 23b much. That was without the friction anti-sway bar installed.
I'll keep an eye on how things operate.The Sprinter stiff rear springs, LT E rated tires, short distance to the trailer ball, long WB, and overall vehicle weight all work to help the towing situation. I feel the height and length of the walls on a van also help to keep side movement caused by winds/wash down while towing a high(er) sided trailer. I've noticed that I get more air wash from an unloaded flatbed tractor trailer or even a tanker than I feel with a full boxed trailer. I'm thinkin' that a full sized van pulling a trailer provides a similar effect as opposed to many non-van lower profile tow vehicles.Many people tow with vehicles that have a relatively short WB, a lower profile, P rated tires and soft suspension. I believe that is much more of a factor than many people realize. Don't Run Your Trailer Tire Pressures Too LowMost special trailer tires are speed rated to 65 mph.
Speed rated is not speed limited. Tire pressure can affect the speed range. Too little tire pressure is a greater sin than too much pressure. Consult your tire manufacturer information.Personally I would not run my trailer tires at less than the max rated pressure listed on the sidewall.
George,This is interesting, but the 2010 and later Sprinters with the Factory installed trailer and wiring + the Oris receiver hitch already haveTrailer Stability Assist (TSA).So far, with TSA, I've never had any issues with trailer sway, including some pretty rapid stops and swerves.TSA seems to work as advertised to adjust the ASR (Anti Skid Recovery) to consider the trailer in tow.I wonder how the Tuson Anti-Sway System would work with the Mercedes TSA systems.Hope this helps,RogerBased on the video it seems as the truck and trailer were independent. With practically no weight on the tongue the trailer system worked beautifully. I think that this gadget will become a standard on heavy RV trailers. This TSA unit nips the problem in the right place, an accelerometer and brakes on the swaying trailer.I don’t know for sure how MB sway help works, but I have doubts if it controls trailer brakes as TSA does.George. I'll include this info here for general purposes, but keep in mind that a Jayco 23b weighs around 5000# and my boat/trailer is only about 3000#.My:2cents:I recently towed my sailboat from Niagara Falls to New Orleans and then to Daytona FL. My guess is that the rig weighs about 3000# all up.
Single axle trailer. Michelin Marathon radials inflated to 55 psi cold. The Sprinter was loaded with vacation stuff, so maybe medium load.At first I ran the CSS Ciprian Set Sixty method. I calcuated 17 mpg. I also found that I was shifting down to 4th gear fairly often.As always seems to happen on long trips I found my speed creeping up. 70 mph Interstate limit.
I found that as Roger, Surly Old Bill, and others have mentioned, the drivetrain seemd happiest around 2800 to maybe 2900 rpm. I observed that my rig climbed most inclines without any need to drop to 4th gear and just seemed happier. My mechanical boost gauge often hung in at 18 -20 psi on those climbs, but all seemed fine.I did take a hit down to 14.5 or 15 mpg or so, but with higher speed that isn't unexpected.The entire drive train response seemed happier at the higher road speed in 5th gear at 2800 rpm. Not so much when at 2800 rpm and in 4th gear.As an aside, I dropped the rear tires from a normal of 65 psi down to 60 psi to see if the ride improved.
I did notice a slight improvement in ride, but I noticed a distinct increase in the rig tending to wander. I went back to 65 psi and the expected 'normal' good tracking returned.Before anyone suggests it, 'No' I am not going to purchase a performance monitoring device. I'm doing just fine now using my boost gauge.vic. We recently towed our 23b Jayco camper through Pennsylvania via Route 15.
The camper is close to the 5000# Sprinter tow limit. We had 4 adults and medium load in the Sprinter.I have towed my J/22 sailboat on the same route many times over the years.
At around 2800# tow weight I've not had any problems maintaining speed. With the heavier and less aerodynamic travel trailer there were uphill climbs where I did find the need to drop into 3rd gear and maintain 40 mph. That wasn't necessary when I could get some speed up on the downhill prior to encountering the climbs.Most times the engine temperature basically remained between the 200F and 215F mark. When climbing the steeper grades there were times when the engine temperature went above 221F to trigger the aux electric cooling fan. The temperature always returned to more typical on the downhill sides.So it's probably no surprise that based upon my limited experience with my T1N the difference of 2000# in trailer weight is noticed by my 2004.I haven't bothered with checking mpg.
I figured that the news wouldn't be good.As an aside.Be aware that when towing a trailer with a Sprinter on the NYS I90 toll thruway you will be treated as a large truck. When towing my single axle sailboat trailer I am classed 3H, 3 axles High.The toll from Buffalo to Amsterdam NY3H 3 axles High = $39.60As compared to:3L, 3 axles Low = $18.00Not towing2H, 2 axles High = $23.052L, 2 axles Low = $11.60It gets marginally worse towing my 2 axle 23b travel trailer.4H 4 axles High = 43.65towing I sometimes use Route 31, Route 5, or Route 20 to avoid the tolls. The pace is slower, but the view along those routes is more interesting than the I90.:2cents: vic. From a recent PM.Travel trailer questionThank you for posting in the travel trailer thread I started a few weeks ago. From reading, I understand that you are pulling a Jayco 23b without issue with your Sprinter.
I am going to be purchasing a 2017 Jayco Jay Feather 7 22BHM that has a dry weight of 4246# with a tongue weight of 445#. It has very small water tanks and limited storage, so I am hoping that I can keep it under that 5000/500 rating on our sprinters.Now I understand that you are not using a weight distributing hitch on your Sprinter when towing yours. Anything I should be aware of if I go the same route? I already have a weight distributing hitch since I pull much larger trailers with my 3/4 ton Cummins Dodge. Do you see any harm in using it on the Sprinter if I decided to? I've read differing thoughts on WD hitches and uni-body vehicles.Again, I'm purchasing this trailer designed to be handled by the Sprinter, so I know I will not need the WD hitch.
Just wondering what your thoughts are if I would want to use it.Thanks in advanceMy reply.First. A disclaimer.I have towed many different boats with vans starting in the early 1970's. I've only towed travel trailers occasionally except for my 23b purchased a few years ago. Any TT opinions are based upon that limited TT experience.I haven't weighed my 23b. I suspect that it approaches 4900# or so total weight. The 23b sits lower to the ground than many other travel trailers.
It has pulled very well without a friction sway bar or load leveling/WD. I tried a friction bar.
The geometry didn't work well with my particular trailer and Sprinter setup. I do keep my speeds down as described in my other posts. I keep waste and water tanks very low or empty. I feel that those factors are significant.WD HitchI've found nothing stating that MB recommends a WD hitch for the maximum published tow rating. The argument from many is that you should have it for the safety margin that it provides.
I've had no problems with the rear end of either the 2500 cargo (single leaf rear spring) or the 2006 passenger (dual progressive rear spring) Sprinter as to squatting. There has been no noticeable sway while towing. I've never experienced the 'tail wag the dog' at all. That has been while loaded with luggage and vacation gear/food/liquids for 4 adults.I'm not certain about the implications of using a WD hitch with the Sprinter uni-body construction. As your tongue weight is not going to be much over the rating, if at all, the WD hitch shouldn't put any significantly greater stress on the hitch/uni-body structure. If you were trying to increase the tow capacity by using a WD that may be a problem. I assume that a WD would help with sway, but that may depend upon the design.
As you already have a WD hitch I would consider trying with and without it. The WD hitch may be worthwhile. I have no experience with that while towing with my Sprinter.I'm convinced that keeping speeds down while towing makes things work much better overall.
It may be the biggest factor with my satisfactory Sprinter travel trailer towing experience.Have fun. VicAdded:Apparently not all dealerships push for a 10,000# WDH like the dealership that I had did.Well, I pulled the trigger today on a 2017 Jayco Jay Feather 7 22MBH. As equipped weight without water is 4246# with a tongue weight of 445#. I spoke at length with the salesman at the dealership and he suggested pulling it without a WD hitch and see how it handles. I'm pretty impressed overall with the dealership experience I've had with them. Very low pressure.
